Debates
This space on our website is there to reflect the exciting public debates which go in the Capital and in particular in and around our church communities. Led by the public debates held in the St Paul's' Cathedral through the St Paul's Institute on a wide variety of subjects, and there is a direct link to the Cathedral site on our website, we hope to bring you fresh and lively encounters between speakers on a number of different topics which we will have received from you!
Send us any audio or filmed debates you may have and with your and the speakers' permission we will include them on the new slot in our updated page. With your help we hope to bringing to the internet Christian opinions about topical subjects that come right out of the churches and faith communities of our internet links. It could be that New York, Paris, Rome or Sri Lanka or any other link to the Internet Church can be shared across the world by the power of electronic communication. That is the Word traveling fast, and a vital new way of being church.
A THOUGHT FROM A QUAKER AUTHOR: A matter for debate?
If the church were Christian, affirming our potential would be more important than condemning our brokenness.
If the church were Christian, reconciliation would be valued over judgment.
If the church were Christian, gracious behavior would be more important than right belief.
If the church were Christian, inviting questions would be more important than supplying answers.
If the church were Christian, encouraging personal exploration would be more important than communal uniformity.
If the church were Christian, meeting needs would be more important than maintaining institutions.
If the church were Christian, peace would be more important than power.
If the church were Christian, it would care more about love and less about sex.
If the church were Christian, this life would be more important than the afterlife.
ENDS.
Thursday, April 8, 2010
Christians Engage the Media
Description: The recent decline in the Cable News Network’s (CNN) ratings indicates that Americans are more interested in a polarized approach to news, whether from the right or the left. An important component of the American cultural landscape, cable news holds significant influence in the way many Americans learn what is happening in the world. Yet, how are Christians to think about their own personal consumption of news? On today’s show, Dr. Mohler discusses this important topic and lays out guiding principles for how Christians should think about the crucial and culturally important topic of news.
http://www.albertmohler.com/2010/04/08/christians-engage-the-media/
Dr Mohler is President of principal Southern Baptist Seminary in the USA. These observations on Christians and the media has global applications. It is worth a listen. Jim Rosenthal
CURRENT TOPICS OF INTEREST AND DEBATE: Easter 2010
GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER:
Rowan Williams: Little cause for regrets
Archbishop has said out loud something that is completely straightforward and thereby provoked an enormous row
Rowan Williams has developed a reputation for obliquity in his time at Canterbury: a man for whom to um is human, but to er, divine. But every now and then he says something completely straightforward, without hesitation. This morning the BBC will broadcast his recorded remarks on the Irish Catholic crisis, in which he says, quite in passing, that the church there has "lost all credibility". This perception is so widely shared, and so close to the truth, that to say it out loud has provoked an enormous row. After the interview was made public, Williams produced an uncharacteristically political apology – which is to say that he regrets the offence he has caused, but not the offending remark; the Roman Catholic archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, could be heard on Radio 4 yesterday biting back the word "insult" when he was asked about it.
To say that the Irish church had lost all credibility was certainly tactless and insulting, and it wasn't even entirely true. The church does retain some shreds of credibility and will recover much more if most of its bishops are sacked. Archbishop Martin, who spent most of his career in the Vatican, is almost the only man in the Irish hierarchy untainted by the decades of complacency and cover-up which have brought disaster on the church. But the old power and self-assurance have gone for good, and good riddance.
No one can blame Williams for pointing this out, nor indeed for getting his own back for years of patronising comments and aggressive behaviour from the Roman church. The official Vatican observer at the last Lambeth conference appeared to say that the Anglican communion was suffering from Parkinson's disease. Pope Benedict has personally encouraged the schism in the Anglican churches over homosexuality and most recently announced, to the consternation of even his own church here, a scheme to allow the Anglican opponents of women priests to convert in groups. That has been so far an almost complete fiasco, drawing in only the members of a group calling itself the Traditional Anglican Communion, which has turned out to be neither traditional nor Anglican, nor a communion. In another display of exasperation and plain talking, Williams says in the same interview of the departing opponents of women: "God bless them. I don't." Here he speaks for almost all his church.
Williams is in some ways a cautious and deeply conservative thinker. This has often disappointed his liberal admirers; but what cuts him off from his opponents to the right is that he is also a feminist: a man who reveres tradition but rejects patriarchal authority. As the father of teenage children, he has a visceral grasp of the horror inspired by child abuse which clearly escaped an elderly celibate hierarchy. Nor is he likely to be led into the grotesqueries of the Vatican's opposition to abortion which seems at times to value the foetus more than the living child. It is one thing for Christians to oppose abortion, but to make it the defining issue of political orthodoxy, as the American religious right has done, has cut off the Catholic church from much that is best in the modern world.
That may not worry Pope Benedict XVI, who has said in lectures that he believes western Europe passed its peak around 1517. But the pope's planned state visit to Britain this autumn does not promise to be a triumphal procession. Although he is a good man who has done almost everything in his power (at least since 2002) to rid his church of abusers and to apologise for their crimes, he remains an elderly German professor, somewhat shy. Neither he nor his advisers grasp how they appear to the outside world. He was probably rather shocked by Williams's remarks; but it is almost certain that he, when visiting Britain, will find something far more shocking to say about Anglicanism, and the English. We accept in advance his apology for the offence he will cause.
Christianity: it's time to restore its image
Christianity has been having a harsh time of it recently. Which is why it needs to follow this failsafe comeback plan
- The Guardian, Wednesday 7 April 2010
- Article history
Gordon Brown is no doubt feeling an ache of despair this morning as he faces a three/seven/10 gajillion- [choose as appropriate to political affiliation of your newspaper] point deficit in the polls, but as seasoned watchers of beleaguered famous people know, misfortune comes to celebrities in pairs. Mother Teresa dies – Princess Diana dies. Kate Winslet and Sam Mendes break up – Sandra Bullock and her porn-loving husband split up.
Some put this synchronicity down to the whims of an unfathomable cosmic universe. The cynical will say that famous people are always having troubles because the same personality flaw that made them desire fame will also cause them to self-destruct – and this truth is as applicable to egomaniacal golfers as it is to our Macbethian prime minister. The point is that Gordon most certainly has a partner in pain: Christianity.
Yes, after two millennia of a pretty much undisputed reign at the top of the pops, Christianity has been having a bad run of late, particularly over the last weekend – which is kinda spooky seeing as the weekend commemorated what was another tumultuous time in Christianity's lifespan. It's like when Jade Goody's mother was caught in a tabloid sting allegedly taking drugs on the anniversary of her daughter's death, isn't it? O Henry never crafted such bitter irony.
But back to Christianity, which its supporters, detractors and agnostic observers all agree currently has something of an image problem. Paedophilia, homophobic B&B owners– no wonder it is now hiding in a celebrity safehouse (AKA the Priory).
"But I'm doing nothing worse than any other religion!" bleats Christianity.
That may be true, Christianity, but you're not helping yourself, and nor are any of your spokesmen – such as one of the pope's cardinals describing the paedophilia allegations in the Catholic church as "petty gossip". And on the very same day, the Archbishop of Canterbury made a simply darling claim that there is a "sustained effort to discriminate against [Christians in this country]" – suggesting that Dr Rowan is something of a fan of John Gaunt's radio talkshow, on which one is treated to diatribes from listeners about how no one is more discriminated against in this country than white men.
New era, new crack team of image re-branders, Christianity. And so, after a heavy weekend of brainstorming, Max Clifford, Charles Saatchi, Nathan Barley and my own humble self are proud to present . . . Christianity: the comeback plan.
1Ally itself with Apple
Seeing – as I found out this weekend – that one can follow Paris's Shoah Memorial on Twitter ("Watching Schindler's List. Liam Neeson = hotness!!!!"), it seems unfathomable that Christianity doesn't have an iPhone app. But that's not enough. Apple is, without doubt, the new religion, as proven by the fact that the same weekend Christianity was getting ragged on, the entire world was kneeling before the new god: the $400 Etch-a-Sketch, AKA the iPad.
I was in New York City when the new Apple temple opened on the Upper West Side last year, and to see the giant Apple logo glowing down upon a dark and wintry Broadway was to know how Christian pilgrims must feel upon seeing the giant statue of Jesus presiding over Rio de Janeiro. Christianity needs to sell up to Apple while it still has stock to sell. Then it can be fronted by the Vicar of Apple, Stephen Fry, and then it will definitely be on Twitter.
2Check into a sex-addiction clinic
Classic shamed celebrity strategy and, in the specific case of the Catholic church, a not entirely ridiculous one.
3 Embark on a tour of the national media to tell everyone that Christianity is now going into hiding
"I want to be much more private," troubled model Sophie Anderton recently announced via the very private medium of GMTV. Similarly, Katie Price appeared on This Morning to announce her own imminent self-isolation, but not before informing the nation that she's not trying to get pregnant at the moment because "I'm on my period". Christianity needs to take note. To this effect, Max Clifford has planned an extensive UK tour to announce its retirement from the public sphere, taking in GMTV, Lorraine Kelly, The Jeremy Kyle Show, The Wright Stuff, London Today, Reveal, OK!, Grazia, Now, Take a Break, Strictly Come Dancing, Dancing on Ice and Big Brother's Little Brother.
4 Hold press conferences at major group events to prove one's humility, thereby ensuring that all attention is taken away from the other, competing religions
Note to fellow rebranders: watch last Monday's Tiger conference. Book that room. Take note of Tiger's pitch-perfect tone of humility, but perhaps don't copy his headwear, as wearing a cap with one's own initials interwoven in such a way that they resemble a diagram about how to check for chlamydia jarred with his claims that he is no longer the egotistical sex addict of yore.
5 Marry Jennifer Aniston or Cheryl Cole
If Christianity marrying either of these young ladies puts an end to stories claiming they are going out with their co-star/producer/a suspiciously camp-looking dancer, or just keeps Gerard Butler's face out of the papers for one blessed day, I'll convert.
Both Sides of Gay Debate
By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter, March 25, 2010
A panel of theologians in The Episcopal Church released on Wednesday a draft document on the divisive issue of same-sex relationships, detailing the positions of the "traditionalists" and the "liberals."
The 95-page paper does not serve as a statement but is a response to the call for The Episcopal Church "to treat the controversy theologically," according to Dr. Ellen Charry, editor of the document and associate professor of historical and systematic theology at Princeton Theological Seminary.
"Same-Sex Relationships in the Life of the Church" was drafted by the Theology Committee of the House of Bishops – a panel of eight who were evenly divided between traditionalists and liberals. Though they were requested to draw up one paper, the theologians have offered two, representing both sides of the debate. They determined early on that it was not possible to present one paper on the subject, said Bishop Paul Lambert of the Diocese of Dallas.
"So the conversation continues with two very divergent views, which in my mind, shows where we are as a Church on the matter of same-sex relationships," Lambert stated.
The project was commissioned in 2008 by the House of Bishops and since then, the panel has met several times. It is expected to be completed in 2011.
"The purpose of this project is not to create a new consensus or make a recommendation to the church," said the Rt. Rev. Henry Nutt Parsley, Jr., chair of the theology committee. "It is rather to express as fully as possible two contrasting theological views, both rooted in the teaching of the church and in Holy Scripture, in order that we might listen to and learn from both sides of the debate,"
Liberal View
In the "liberal" paper, the theologians argue that the church should marry same-sex couples because it "requires their testimony to the love of Christ and the church, and because it recognizes that same-sex couples stand in need of sanctification no less than opposite-sex couples."
"In grafting same-sex marriage onto the domestic rite, the church follows the pattern of God’s grafting wild, Gentile olive branches onto the domesticated olive tree of Israel (Rom 11:24)," they contend. "The church does so because same-sex couples need the sanctification that marriage teaches, and the church needs the marital virtues that same-sex couples are already receiving."
The four theologians argue that those who are gay or lesbian need same-sex relationships for their own sanctification "because neither opposite-sex relationships nor celibacy could get deeply enough into their hearts to promote lifelong commitment and growth."
They also note that same-sex marriage is not an issue of extended rights and privileges but one of "pastoral occasion to proclaim the significance of the gospel for all who marry, because marriage embodies and carries forward the marriage of God and God's people."
"To deny committed couples marriage deprives them not of a privilege but of a medicine. It deprives them not of a social means of satisfaction but of a saving manner of healing."
The liberal paper was written by: Deirdre J. Good of General Theological Seminary, Cynthia B. Kittredge of Seminary of the Southwest, Eugene F. Rogers of the University of North Carolina, Greensboro, and Willis J. Jenkins of Yale Divinity School.
Traditionalists' View
The more conservative theologians recognize that a shift in public opinion has occurred in the last 30 years or so. They note that until recently, only a few churches in the United States – "mainly weaker and shrinking groups" – had taken the more liberal path on same-sex marriage. But the scene has changed in recent years with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America now allowing the ordination of noncelibate homosexuals and The Episcopal Church also taking the liberal path.Continue »
The traditionalists reject the link some have made between the civil rights movement of the '60s and the gay and lesbian movement. And they believe that some Episcopal bishops who lean conservative have lent their support to same-sex marriage because "they are afraid of being like the two Episcopal bishops in Alabama in 1963 who joined with six other local churchmen in writing an open letter to Martin Luther King, Jr., criticizing him for disobeying established laws and for not having patience to wait for change in civil rights to develop gradually and naturally."
"At the heart of our position is the conviction that the issue of same-sex marriage simply cannot be put in the same category as other social issues on which Anglicans and Christians in general have changed their mind," they assert. "We do not believe that acceptance of gay and lesbian marriage fits neatly into some narrative of successive liberation movements that emancipated serfs, slaves, child laborers, blacks, and now homosexual couples."
The group adds, "The argument is often made that the scriptural treatment of chattel slavery, the subordination of women, and the prohibition of usury are moral issues where subsequent reflection and experience led to genuine change in the Church’s teaching, and that the question of same-sex relationships poses the same kind of challenge to accept the wisdom of a new perspective.
"However, this comparison really does not work. With regard to the subordination of women, it is explicit in Genesis 3 that men’s ruling over women came about as result of human disobedience rather than as an original intention of creation. Texts that require the subordination of women can therefore plausibly be seen as concessions to human sinfulness, and reflect the disorder of humanity after the fall."
The traditionalist paper was written by: John E. Goldingay of Fuller Theological Seminary, Grant R. LeMarquand of Trinity Episcopal School for Ministry, George R. Sumner of Wycliffe College inToronto, Canada, and Daniel A. Westberg of Nashotah House.
Charry, the editor of the document, points out that the two groups of theologians did not arrive at two symmetrical documents because each "came at the issue with different purposes, needs, and perceptions of audience."
The issue of homosexuality has splintered the worldwide Anglican Communion – of which The Episcopal Church is the U.S. arm. Anglican leaders have affirmed moratoria on the blessing of same-sex unions and the ordination of partnered homosexuals and have also called for gracious restraint on those two areas.
In 2009, however, The Episcopal Church opened the ordination process to all baptized members, which would include homosexuals, and called for the development of liturgical resources for the blessing of same-sex unions.
This year, the U.S. body is also expected to ordain its second openly gay bishop in May.
For the full text of the papers, visit:http://www.collegeforbishops.org/
